Torchwood : Children of Earth : The Aftermath
WARNING! This article contains major and detailed spoilers for Children of Earth
by Kirsty Walker 
In December 2008, John Barrowman announced that the Doctor Who spin-off Torchwood would be ‘toned down’ for series three in order to make it more palatable to the American market. This was potentially a decision which would affect the thematic elements of the show as well as the script and storylines, and on our radio show I expressed concerns that this would mean the end of Captain Jack’s relationship with Ianto Jones, and would change the show beyond all recognition. Seems I didn’t have that much to worry about
Children Of Earth was a five part mini series aired on consecutive nights on the BBC. It concerned the invasion of Earth by an alien race known as the 456 who wanted ten percent of the planet’s children in return for their swift departure. Torchwood tried to get involved in the negotiations, and the 456 released a deadly gas into the MI5 building, killing most of the inhabitants, including one of the Torchwood team. There were some genuinely harrowing scenes; a Minister executing his entire family and then turning the gun on himself rather than allow his children to be taken; Jack sacrificing his grandson Steven to stop the 456, and that unexpected character death.
Ianto is dead. He died in Jack’s arms as it was inevitable he would, and the viewers reacted strongly. Writer James Moran was so inundated with messages to his Twitter account that he posted a number of impassioned pleas to tone down the vitriol, and the whole American continent wailed at the spoilers which spilled forth from this side of the Atlantic. Ianto’s was perhaps the most depressing of all the Torchwood character deaths. There was a nastiness to Owen’s end which made the drama more pointed. Tosh’s death was avoidable and bittersweet. Ianto had ties to Jack, and more importantly he had some last words that wouldn’t have seemed out of place on a soap opera. He begged his immortal paramour not to forget about him with his dying breaths, sealed with a kiss which would have not have seen the light of day on an early evening programme.
Although Moran only wrote Day Three of Children of Earth, not the episode in which Ianto died, his presence on Twitter meant that he bore the brunt of the Torchwood fans’ anger. Twitter user AngieAgain was seemingly upset by the way in which Ianto and Jack’s relationship ended. She accused Moran of ‘deliberately egging on the shippers knowing how it would end’. By the time the Ianto death episode aired his back was against the wall. “Am extremely proud of the whole series and I stand by my fellow writers. An injury to one is an injury to all.” He said, following up with “Saying we deliberately hurt people is unfair and wrong. You won’t like everything, but we can’t let that dictate what we do. We don’t want to lose you, we would never want that, but our first and only priority is the story.”
Over on the Torchwood forum’s Facebook page there was a mixed reaction to the episodes. Ruth Kelly (one presumes not the ex-government minister) said “Feel very angry with Russell T. Davis. What will happen to the adults who watch Torchwood, what have we got left?”
Jessica Hill represents a significant number of viewers who have said that they will desert the show altogether. “After what I’ve just watched I don’t care if they ever bring it back. I will never think of Jack in the same way after killing his grandchild. This makes Jack no better than the people who were doing wrong.”
The official line on Torchwood is that it will return, but one has to wonder how they are going to start from ground zero after such disturbing character developments, and whether the viewers will come with them.
Popularity: 100% [?]
Gotta wonder… will it return now that RTD is leaving?
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/113365/Dr-Who-genius-leaves-for-America
the website if you don’t believe me.
This article is rubbish – the 5 parter got the best ratings the show ever had, on a channel and in an awkward timeslot being that people had to tune in each night (in the summer) to see the whole thing and many people dont bother watching something when this is the case. No-one thought it would work and yet ratings and overall review wise, the thing was a massive sucsess. People must have liked it, or they wouldnt have tuned in, and the share of viewing figures is pretty convincing! You are clearly only presenting the arguments from people who agree with you as someone presenting an unbalanced biased opinion rather than a true reflection of the series, and facts to really back your comments up. You really have nothing even slightly positive or encouraging to say about it… pretty crap review (but thats just my opinion)!
To prove that all age groups love Torchwood, I am 73 years old, and a widow from 2006. After the last episode of Children of Earth, I cried, sobbed in fact, for ages. Please do not take Torchwood away from us – I love it so much, and have dvd sets (very handsome) of series 1, and 2. I have No 3 on Sky Plus at the moment. and plan to watch the weekly series to see if I could bear to watch it again. I love John Barrowman as Captain Jack – please, please bring him back – I have just come out of hospital after an operation, and I felt this blow all the more keenly. Living alone, I had no-one to comfort me, or even to say Snap Out Of It, Mum. I beg of you – please take pity on all the Torchwood addicts, and bring Jack back soon!
Rosemary
Dear Rosemary,
How wonderful that Torchwood has reached so many people. I had no idea that our more mature community would get into it like you have, but you are clearly a wonderful fan of the show.
I hope like you that Captn Jack will be back – hey, I even hope that somehow, somewhere, we’re going to see Ianto again.
Hold on Rosemary – all the true fans are itching for Season 4…ANYTHING at all is possible in Sci Fi :)
Take care.
Ruth.
You are the cool one. You are not alone to want to bring Torchwood back. My instincts tell me there will be series 4. It won’t be same but evolving. I can’t wait for next one. Now you aren’t alone.
Completely agree with adam.
Your views are biased and unjust, and Torchwood recieved by far its highest viewing figures with 5.8 million viwers watching it with a massive 28 percent share of the viewing figures.
The plot was fantastic, deep, sad and political, and if you havent made up those idiotic comments, the people obviously didn’t have the slighest idea of Jack’s courage and strong will to be able to kill his own grandchild to save the world from certain death.
Ianto died, it was sad, but AngieAgain represents a miniscule minority of the viewers of the show
This review is unreliably sourced, biased, and barely gives a REVIEW of the show, rather a 2-minute ordered collection of meaningless viewer sources.
Your review is ‘crap’
Well I loved the show up until Ianto’s unexpected and very unwanted death. My friends in the Gay Community say they will not be watching series 4 without the relationship between Ianto and Jack, I agree the Russell T Davies has showed a complete disregard for the programs loyal fanbase. Gareth David Lloyd has not publicly expressed any desire to leave which leads me to believe that we may not have seen the last of him on Torchwood (fingers crossed).
Im sorry, but do your friends in the gay community only watch shows with gay relationships in them? Why is a character more untouchable than any other because he is in a gay relationship. I absolutely loved Ianto and I think the relationship (shortlived as it was) was very moving and made me really feel something when he died, but isnt that the point of great television. To make you feel and think… clearly this wouldnt have bothered you as much had you not invested yourself in the character. For you to have done that IMO the creators have done a brill job in giving you reasons to do so. If your reasons or your friends reasons for this investment are simply rooted in the fact that he was in a homosexual relationship, well I don’t really understand why one has a baring on the other…
I’m sorry but that’s just a crazy attitude to express. The death was nothing to do with anyone being gay or straight or letting down one community or another. This program was the finest example in recent times of pure Greek tragedy. Go and read Odysseus and be shocked with the body count of major and minor characters, but admire the pathos associated with their demise which makes the tale so powerful. Exactly why children of earth works so brilliantly. People die, usually the best and most innocent of people because they don’t have the devious or brutal self preservation possessed by the most complex and flawed characters. If anything another series should absorb itself in the truly dark side of the human psyche. I cant wait.
Love it mate, 100% agree!
I hadn’t thought of the Greek tragedy angle, but you’re absolutely right. Killing the likeable character only makes it more poignant and therefore you could argue better drama.
While nothing in this review is wrong, it’s so focused on the negative it seems that it’s more of the reviewers view than actual reporting.
Every “real” review I’ve seen has been effusive with praise and called the season a huge success.
Ratings were through the roof, and people who had never watched the show before watched this series.
Even though I “hated” the darkness and pain in this show, and I yearn for a happy ending, but from the first episode of this show, it was pretty clear that there werent many happy endings in Torchwood.
And to use a quote from a Twitter user as a representative sample of fanbase views is valid, but a weak pillar to build a rticle on.
(and to be honest, everyone who knows anything about the show knew how the Ianto/Jack relationship would end. We know how EVERY relationship with Jack ends. Heck, we know how Jack dies, but it’s the journey of how we all get there thats the coolness)
I’m fine with reviews being opinionated, I guess it’s just that this read less like a review, and more like fanmail.
Nowhere in this article does Ms Walker express a personal opinion about the series, nor does she state that the programme had poor viewing figures. What she has clearly said is that there has been a viewers’ backlash and she has quoted various sources to back this up. As to the statement “The official line on Torchwood is that it will return, but one has to wonder how they are going to start from ground zero after such disturbing character developments, and whether the viewers will come with them,” I hear the Devil’s Advocate, not condemnation.
I thought the death of Ianto and Jack’s appalling situation were very brave decisions on the part of the writers, but guaranteed to alienate some of the viewers. ‘Ground Zero’, if indeed there is one, will hopefully be as inventive, and compelling as Children of Earth. The viewers will come back. Who wouldn’t tune in to a new series of Firefly because Joss Whedon killed off Wash? I know I certainly would!
But the point is that the backlashing viewers are, in actual terms, a tiny fringe. The overwhelming share of the audience loved the series… in the audience-appreciation survey, they’re asked to rate the program with marks out of ten. An average score of 8/10 means you’re above average, 8.5/10 is considered an excellent result. Children of Earth averaged 9.0/10. Pretty much nothing on the air does that — even Doctor Who only managed it once. It’s a sign of huge overwhelming audience enthusiasm… even after Ianto died.
Yup, Done. I was so looking forward to this series. It was going fantastic and then they destroyed it. The loyal gay had to die painfully just as they started to acknowledge that they were a couple. Just can’t have a gay couple be happy. Now the arrogant gay gets to whore his way across time and space. And what about the grandson?
They destroyed the last shred of Jack’s humanity. Why should I ever care about him or this show ever again.
Still just my own opinion but I think the hardest sacrifices are ones you make yourself, if Jack could have died to save the planet he would have (and has, even before he knew he would come back to life ala in s1 Doctor Who when Rose originally ressurected him). He had an impossible choice, his own flesh and blood or the entire world (which also includes the very same flesh and blood). I don’t think any of us here in real life are in positions where we must make such choices so of course it seems like an unthinkable sacrifice to make.
Further, as Ianto indicated, he was not actually gay. He told his sister he loved Jack and only Jack. What that really means I don’t know but I think we can look at it both ways and (glass being half full) positivly recognise that the show included this type of theme (something I feel most other shows only ever make extremely cheesy, glance over or avoid completely). Since the death of Ianto doesnt make Jack any less bi-sexual or whatever he claims to be (apparently he’s into aliens etc too) I don’t quite understand why it would alienate gay people. He’s likely to have further relationships should the series continue. Ianto (as much as I liked him and hope he somehow returns) started off the series in a reasonably minor role compared to the other main characters killed off in season 2 and I do feel that shows like this need to keep things fresh. Casts far too often are kept together simply because fans wish it and sometimes a show should be given some slack when they have the balls to shake things up and keep you on your toes with a “start from scratch” approach that you don’t see comming. I will look forward to the next load of eps and cannot wait to see where the show goes. Jack’s character has gone through a massive transformation from the man he was in Doc Who at the beginning to who he is now and there is so much we do not know about at all.
Finally, the review is slanted, yes there was as someone else has mentioned a strong response from angry fans – as there is whenever a big character is killed off in a popular show, this does not make the show less popular, nor does it detract from the fact that the following night the ratings continued to be as strong as the rest of the five parter (also take into account this was at 9pm on Friay night). The article mentions no positives and only negatives which generally would be accepted as a choice made by the writer to express an opinion. I am not trying to be argumentative, I simply thought this was a great little series which took me through an emmotional ride that I enjoyed as much as I hated (in parts)!
Hi, I would like to add my 2cents to the part of your comment-
I agree with Paul. I’m done. Not that Children of Earth wasn’t great, not that there weren’t a whole lot of people watching, but the major reason to watch this show was for Ianto and Jack; you’ve killed one and sent the other off to mope around the galaxy being emo and sexually promiscuous.
I loved this show because it wasn’t like every other gay themed show on television– there was a happy (well, moderately happy), sexually active gay couple who was running around having fun with each other, even when things were bad. And with last season ending in death, and this season ending in death, it’s just reached a level of unimaginative carnage.
“We need an ending– kill Ianto and the cute blond kid.”
Sorry guys, but I’m out.
I think that the BBC have alienated themselves from so many British fans by trying to attract American audiences. Torchwood is so British, that’s what makes it what it is. I think by trying to remove that and make Torchwood a “universal” kind of programme, they’ve taken away what it really was- a great British sci-fi series. Look, I’m 17 years old and am a massive fan, the programme really appeals to me, and to what seems like people of all ages. However, after the death of Ianto and the way that the writers ended the storyline, the BBC have got a lot of making up to do, which is a shame, because Torchwood is such a great programme and I really want it to stay as such.
If you look on the internet, there are petitions and complaints and plans to protest at the Torchwood signings, and it’s just not right. How did the writers let it come to this? It’s sad really, that they’ve seemed to turn everyone against one of their greatest creations. I, for one, really hope that Torchwood can live on, and be redeemed- before it’s too late.
Bring back Ianto. (www.saveiantojones.com)
(Sorry if I’ve said anything anyone doesn’t agree with…that’s just my opinion on the matter!)
Vicky
Without Ianto torchwood is dead and I don`t speak as a minority
I speak with a majority of torchwood fans who have watched it since 2006 not just the few newbies who only joined this year
Ianto needs to be brought back if there is to be a series 4
sorry I am out
I know a large number of TW fans in reallife and in the virtual world who’ve also watched it from the beginning, and as sad as we are, we are soooo not out! As much as people might think otherwise, the show is bigger than Ianto Jones, and that’s from someone who sobbed her heart out with the best of them.
And for the people who keep talking about an emo, sexually active Jack having fun in space, you clearly have managed to miss the point of this story. Jack’s a broken man, trying to run away from his grief: grief for Ianto, Tosh, Owen, Suzie, Steven, Alice – who will no doubt ever speak to him again, Gray, countless others he’s known and loved that we don’t yet know about, cursing his inability to die and be free from the pain. Doesn’t sound like a man off on a jolly “whoring” trip to me.
I’m afraid you do speak as a minority — fans are always a tiny minority of the total audience of a show. As a general rule, only about 1% of the viewers of a show even buy the DVDs, let alone become hardcore fans.
And the general audience — both the three million who watched the first couple of seasons, and the other three million who turned up now — are overwhelmingly positive on the show now. Yes, even after Ianto died.
They’re not going to make the show to appeal to just a few thousand hardcore fans — these days the Beeb literally can’t afford to spend millions of pounds on a tiny audience. Without the “newbies”, the show dies anyway. Simple as.
I’m not sure if i should be smoking a cigarette, or crying hysterically while balled up in the corner…Either way,the writers have left me with a head full of grog and my knickers about my ankles, figuratively speaking. When i’d first heard of torchwood, i thought it would get lost wandering beyond the safety of the little blue box. And it almost did. More than one episode tried to imitate all of the fun campyness, but lacked the quirky wit of a gallifreyan vagabond to balance it out. …then, about halfway into season one, the cast, writers, and directors found their stride. This was to be about the messes that the doctor leaves behind, and the ones he never saw. …Beyond the confines of the police box apperantly, there’s a universe that only smiles through it’s tears. A universe that might be a tad close to our flats. One where desire is muddled, love is unrequited, and the best solutions available is a slapshod patch.
So, almost seemingly against my will, i’ve been drawn in. Spent some two odd years now getting cozy with these half mad people, led by one immortal to clean up after another immortals messy fallout. I admit. I’ve become a fan. I like the more adult storylines, getting to peek through the TARDIS’s keyhole and into the bedroom antics of the people beyond it. Seeing that in fact humans are not as nearly as helpless as the doctor would lead you to think!
That all being said…The finale of season two was like someone stealing my car while i was napping in the back seat. This five part miniseries akin to being kicked in the gut while someone shoots your brother. We’d always expected it to end this way, but not this soon. …Perhaps akin to finding out in act two who the killer was in would throw off a murder mystery novel. Perhaps they will surprise me again, and leap out of the plot corner they’ve painted in…We will have to see! But i have to say, i WILL miss Ianto. Out of all the characters, he was the most like any of us, and i think that without his humanity to redeem them(especially jack) that the rest will be cast adrift, gradually fading off into the distance beyond even the reach of mighty Rassilon himself.
We shall see.
i think that the story was good. really enjoyed the series as a whole. was not happy with the way it ended. some of the things that happened in episode 5 felt a bit like a cop out, and some of the lines made me cringe a little. but you can expect that in anything.
Ianto’s death just felt unnecessary. he didnt need to die. it just felt like a pointless stab in the dark for something to happen. what did killing him achieve? all it did was break down the fundamentals of the show. this coupled with steves death made it so jack has nothing to live on earth for. so he leaves… short of making it a solely gwen cooper show (which i dont think would work, as for many people it was always Jack’s show – he was the character that we identified with as the link between torchwood and doctor who) they have no way of bringing this show back to earth.
i have seen very few positive reasctions to Ianto dying. in fact, scratch that. i havent seen any. i think that it was a collosal mistake to kill anyone from the team this season, given that we lost two important members last season.
Now Torchwood consists of a leaky warehouse that is known to the government and therefore useless, some stolen equipment and whatever people had in their pockets at the time of the explosion and a pregant woman. what is torchwood now? it just wont be the same. it was salvagable while the team were all together. fighting together and refusing to be beaten……. they gave up…..
this is why the fans are angry. because the hype about this series has been over and above anything they have had before. but this just smacks of the end, which we have had no preparation for. it feels like the show has been given up on, which considering its potential and the fact that so many people love it like they do….. really doesnt make sense.
this season may have had amazing ratings… but after what happened, will next season be so lucky? without some amazing luck, very clever writing, and some fixing of the things that have turned the fans away… i very much doubt it.
First of all; let me say that I am saddened by the death of Ianto as much as anyone.
I am also pretty sure that we have not seen the last of Jack. From what is leaking through thus far about the good Doctor’s sendoff : it seems perfectly plausible that Jack will show up there. I also think that; given RTD’s tendency for happy ending’s; at least in the Who world; we have not seen the last of Ianto. If Rose is truly coming back for the finale; which seems to be a forgone conclusion at this point; then we will be seeing the parallel universe again. That opens a lot of interesting possibilities. RTD has also pointed out that one of the reasons that he wanted to do an adult version of Doctor Who was to make it more realistic in terms of death. People die in that line of work; pure and simple.
Jack has not lost his humanity; far from it. He left cause it was just too painful to stay. As per his grandson; either he used the kid to save the world and beat the 456; or see him sent away like all the others to what surely was a worse than death situation.
That did not stop him from crying his eyes out. As the reviewer in the guardian pointed out; even the mum did not fight that hard. She did not even say anything afterwards.
I also agree with the person who said that its a small minority of people that will really stop watching. Right now they are just dealing with their grief the only way they know.
I think a lot of the shock and despair comes from how closely together they killed off the characters. I loved Ianto, but always knew he would die, although I think he died too early, as there were still so many facets to his character. Ianto was under-utilised, and just when they put him in the forefront they kill him off.
My favourite was Tosh. I loved ehr. I cried when she died, and still haven’t been able to bring myself to watch Exit Wounds, because it’s too painful.
And then 4 episodes later they kill Ianto. Yeah, it may have screened a year later, but it was still only 4 episodes later. How can you ask fans to invest in another season when you keep killing off the people they watch it for?
The Jack/Ianto relationship was a large reason for why I watched, but it’s not the reason I’lls top. I’ll stop ebcause they killed the show for me. I was so excited about seeing new episodes, so excited about this storyline and where they would go with it…and it left me depressed. The elements of what made Torchwood were not in this season. It really was an amazing sci-fi mini-series, with the members of Torchwood thrown into the middle.
And then the last episode – man, ok it was dealing with darker issues, but did they have to finish on such a bleak and depressing point on a Friday? There was no hope, no optimism, the show finished and you were left with this futted feeling in the pit of your stomach, one which didn’t go away for the entire weekend. Thank god I watched the finale drunk, I don’t think I could have done it sober.
They will come back, they’ll bring Jack back and he’ll move on. I’m sure a portion of the fans will continue watching as well, as they’ll have had time to grieve and move on. I just don’t know if I want to watch it, because I don’t know how they can bring back those elements of the show which I loved and keep the high ratings from COtE.
Grow up people. The Torchwood mini series was an excellent piece of scifi writing. I thoroughly enjoyed all of it. Jack is no goody two shoes and never has been and I think his real character came out in this series. Using his own grandchild was retribution for the wrong he did when he delivered the first lot of children to the aliens. That’s life — ye reap what ye sow—- and usually it’s the innocent who pay. At least the writers can him bring back having suffered which should give much more depth to his character. John Barrowman is excellent as Captain Jack and as made the part his own. Can’t wait for the new series. Hope it comes soon.
*nod* second that.
Hear Hear!
“Torchwood: Children of Earth” was an amazing piece of television, very well written in all its parts. It would be a great ending for the show… but now I can’t see how they could dare to make a season 4 and pretend that we’ll watch it. There’s nothing left of the Torchwood we loved, absolutely nothing.
As for me, the show ended with Ianto’s death which was even not heroic and it happened just to make Jack run away. Ianto was my favourite character (ever, maybe) and he had a lot to say yet and watch him die in that kinda useless way just killed off all my will to keep watching the show (and buy merchandising, actually). So I think I would tune in again for a season 4 only if a big reset could happen bringing him back and Jack along with him, because if Jack comes back to a newly formed team of strangers, it would lessen Ianto’s sacrifice and make me even angrier.
Re: The BBC changing Torchwood to please an American audience: We in America loved Torchwood the way it was. We loved the characters, and that it was set in Wales. There are as many Ianto fans here that are upset and planning not to watch a season 4 as there are in the UK. They ruined the show for all of us.
here is the explanation for all that happened in the last series:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/113365/Dr-Who-genius-leaves-for-America
I guess RDT needed to create a storm before going to Hollywood… anny publicity is good publicity, no matter hom manny fans it dissapoints.
As always on the Internet, it’s very hard to get a real feel for how the over all reaction various plot points went, not least because with the US not seeing the show for another 8 days or so, I know I’ve avoided tweeting any specific comments on things like Ianto’s death, and surely others have as well.
As it happens, I thought killing him off was a bold and well timed move plot wise, yes it wasn’t very heroic – but that was the point, and I was expecting it to come at some point
For me though, Torchwood was more a concept show, rather then a show about specific characters, and since I like the fact it was dark and gritty, I expect dark and gritty things to happen.
As for Jack killing his grandson, he made the right choice, if he let the child live, millions would have died, having the blood of one relative on your hands, or millions of unknowns? It’s a bleak choice, but there is only one you can pick. Though I would have liked to have seen a bit more build up in using a child in the communication process, the idea seemed to come a little to quickly for me.
What ever comes next, I will be first in line to watch it and hope they keep to the more detailed mini-series format.
How true.
This article is a load of cobblers, we know all this. There is no serious commentary about the five parter here. No actually comments about their personal opinion on it just a scrap of facts cobbled together and pathetically called a article
I don’t understand what the problem is, Jack was always going to lose Ianto, Jack’s immortal (and I notice that the Gay community didn’t start ranting about the death of Toshiko in the last series… oops me bad, i’m straight). And of course Torchwood will continue, do you really think Martha Jones, (the ghastly) Micky Smith, Sarah Jane and The Doctor et al will sit back and allow what’s happened to go un-punished. Besides, that horrific woman who looks like she could be the next Prime Minister is way too good a villain to be left alone. I’ve got a feeling she could be one of the best Sci-Fi baddys in a long time.
As someone who miscarried a planned for baby last year Jack’s sacrifice of Stephen very nearly made me throw up while I watched it. And when my husband who worked late on Friday watched it last night I had to leave the room. But as dark and disturbing as the series was I think it was completely amazing. I’ve rarely felt more emotionally involved in a series, not since Babylon 5 when I was a teenager. I can’t believe that this was the same series as the dreadful first and little better second series.
Ianto was probably my favourite of the team and his death was heart-breaking. But that’s life, people die sometimes, and if you live a dangerous life the odds of you dying young are high. And if the characters in an action series always come out smiling at the end of the show, then there is no tension, no audience involvement and no real point to anything that happens. If you want to watch an action series were no-one dies and the good guys always win may I suggest the A-Team or MacGuyver.
Congratulations Torchwood writers, this series was some of the best science fiction I’ve ever seen, certainly in the mainstream. It was witty, intelligent, brave and realistic.
Personally, I have no interest in watching a show, in which the climax of every season is going to result in the deaths of beloved characters. I have been a Torchwood fan since season 1, and am seriously disappointed with the direction this season has taken the show.
As an American, I watch Torchwood precisely because it is a British show which deals with science-fiction in a very British manner. It was excellent the way it was and should not be altered to please any one audience. Further, those Americans who watch such escapist fair tend not to care about contemporary social mores – we were just fine with the Jack/Ianto relationship; in fact, we relished it. It was one of the few stable tropes of the show.
I felt acutely the loss of Owen and Tosh, and while Owen’s farewell was, at the time, almost a foregone conclusion, and Tosh’s was bittersweet and sad, they served an overall purpose and drove story. Ianto’s death serves no such purpose. It was pointless and horrible and completely unnecessary. It didn’t drive story – I can think of no one particular way how Ianto being saved would have changed the outcome with regard to Jack’s daughter and grandson, and therein lies the crux of the problem: I feel manipulated.
As a fan of both Doctor Who and Torchwood, it seems to me that RTD enjoys yanking the chains of the audience, just because he can, and, further, he creates frustrating plot holes. It was bad enough watching Rose be forcibly taken not only from the Doctor but from her world; this was compounded by what was done to Donna, arguably one of the best companions there ever was (and I’m a die-hard Rose fan). Then Tosh and Owen, and now Ianto. No, thank you.
Torchwood is not Doctor Who, and thus the audience have drastically different expectations. DW is about one Doctor and one companion, both of whom change often, as per canon dictates. Torchwood, however, is an ensemble show. Viewers come to expect and rely upon the fact that its premise is somewhat fixed. Were the show merely about Jack, then it would be nothing more than a poor imitation of DW. To decimate three-fifths of the primary cast so close together and for no discernible reason other than melodrama, it suggests to viewers that there is no point in establishing emotional connections to the characters because they will die anyway. I’m not arguing against character deaths – in some cases, they are necessary to drive story and, while we as fans might not like when it happens, there is usually some emotional payout from its occurrence. This is not the case with Torchwood. Why care about a show when it’s presented as a given that characters you know and love will be killed unnecessarily? If there is a season four in which Jack returns, he will presumably have moved past the deaths of Ianto and Steven. That’s fine for him, but for the rest of us, the emotional repercussions continue, and if there is no resolution, why bother?
Bah. Apologies for rambling. I’m quite upset. Children of Earth was well-written and well-acted, but I don’t think it was well-planned, and I have no interest in the “Jack and Gwen Show.”
Let’s get real here: The Children of Earth had been a criticial and commercial success. It has also reciveved OUTSTANDING audience appreciation figuures (88, 90, 90, 91, 90 over the five days). The people that watched it loved it, and it got much higher than average viewing figures than a drama of it’s kind in it’s slot.
The so called reserch done for this article was piss poor and made no attempt to accurately reflect the popularity of this series, which was, in actual fact immense.
To base ones opinion on the views of a tiny number of brain dead morons who send hate mail to people becuase the story didn’t get written they wanted to is the poorest excuse of journilism i’ve seen the sun artile about JHillsborough back in 1989.
Ianto fans need to get the hell over themselves, to be honest. hey are deluding themselves if they think most people watch the show because of Ianto…..funniest thing I heard all year!
The “tiny number of brain dead morons” as you put it, managed to make “Janto” trending on Twitter. That ought to tell you something.
People felt betrayed. They invested emotionally in their favorite characters, only to see them drop dead like flies, and for no good reason.
Not only that, but if I’m not mistaking, a while ago the writers promised that the Janto/Jack relationship will develop further. It didn’t… unless “developing a relationship” is some euphemism for killing off one of its protagonists.
Manny people (myself among them) overlooked cavernous holes in the plot, and kept watching, because there was a love story you don’t see every day developing.
There was a good reason for them dying – they were defending the Earth.
And yes, the Jack/Ianto relationship did develop… into the uncomfortable reality that happens with many relationships, let alone with the complications of a homosexual relationship AND one member of the relationship being essentially immortal.
Sorry you couldn’t see the fantastic plot over your fanon lovesickness.
Why did they watch ep 5 if they were watching a love story. Scratch that… why watch a dark sc-fi prog at all if your looking for love stories, this isnt Eastenders!! Didn’t people know what sort of series it was when the two love birds of season 2 got killed before they could really get together! Least we got to see a relationship form this time, but really thats not what the shows advertised to be about and I really don’t know why people watch it just for that.
Nice to see trolls out in force, we need a special troll episode just for you Adam!
In all seriousness, this was totally awesome enjoyed every minute of it even the harsh harsh choices that were made by Jack.
Don’t quite get the troll comments but sounds like you have a simmilar opinion to myself on how good the series was. Either that or you are just mental or confused… not really sure which atm, let me know yeah!
It did develop further – in series 2 they were kind of messing around, with Jack still having some thoughts about Gwen, and Ianto merely satisfying a need.
After the events atthe end of series 2 and in the interim time, the relationship developed to the extent where they were very much a “couple”, discussing the long term facts about their relationship – how Jack will barely change as Ianto grows old and dies – and being prepared to sacrifice everything for the one you love (Jack wanted to give the 456 everything in the heat of the moment, if he could keep Ianto).
From a bit of fun to love – I’d call that relationship development.
I so agree. As well I want to point out that Heroes make the sacrifice that no one else will make, and Jack did what no one else had the strength to do. You think there isn’t any self loathing ? Watch it again and pay attention. He wasn’t happy in 1965 and was thought not to care… when he cares enough and is forced to make a decision – he makes it , with tears. Ianto ? Well, hell’s bells, was the character so self absorbed that he thought he was Jack had only ever had eyes for him ? Sorry, love the actor but the last five nights brought out a side of the character that was childish and self-centered .
To everyone who is ‘beating’ Kirsty. She didn’t express any of her own opinions, she is merely writing what she has seen herself. If you don’t like what is written then there is no need to comment,there are plenty of other reviews saying how good the show was blah blah blah. You chose to read the review so if you don’t like what you read, go somewhere else and find one that says how amazing it was.
Although viewings were high, it doesn’t stop people from giving bad reviews on what happened in the show.
I have been watching the show since it first aired and i instantly like Ianto. I was gutten when they killed Owen but i though at least we stil have Tosh, Gwen, Ianto and Jack. Then they killed Tosh for no apparent reason and then they kill of Ianto, again, for no apparent reason. Although i am absolutely gutted about this i do not doubt the writers, i have faith in them. Although it may be torn, i believe they can bring this round.
I don’t see the point in lashing out and saying hurtful things to the writers. Whats done is done and it can’t be changed. They can not pull the series and rewrite it all. Anything is possible when it come to sci-fi, people who you think are dead CAN come back. Jack can time travel, if some of you care to remember. This brings in lots of opportunities to bring back Ianto if they wish to explore that option. And if they don’t wish to bring him back at all, they have a lot of writing to do. With Gwen being pregnant and Jack off in space on an emotional reflection of denial, there’s not a lot they can do at the moment. In reality, Gwen wouldn’t be back to work for at least a year but you never know with sci-fi!
I quote from the site http://www.saveiantojones.com “Myself and thousands more fans just like me thought that although the scene was beautifully written, it was not essential to the plot and has ruined, perhaps forever, what was once the most brilliant show on television.”
These fans are taking on a huge protest about Ianto’s death but they are being responsible and not causing an uproar. They also have a petition to bring back Ianto to the show. Go along and sign if you want to try to help him come back.
The first series of Torchwood was somthing new, something that took a while to get into its stride and was in part the bastard offspring of a telvision legend but once it gelled became unmissable. Series two excelled in clarifying that nothing is clear and we should expect the unexpected, however unpalatable and it delivered just at the point when we actually cared about all the team, including Owen. Series three – again, what to expect? Where is the full 13-part series we have grown to know and love, our weekly dose of drama with sci-fi elements that took us out of our comfort zone as it was meant to be happening on our doorstep. Well, Welsh doorsteps actually, but that allowed an even quirkier human touch to manifest. (P.S. I like Wales et al!)
“Torchwood: Children Of The Earth” fascinated me, five powerful hours of allegorical ideas that to my mind not only celebrated but also expanded upon the best in British Sci-Fi from the last fifty years, and coming in the 50th anniversary of “Quatermass & The Pit” only accentuated this feeling. In fact, I had a great time spotting where elements could have been borrowed from past greats, including ‘harvesting’ the young (“Quatermass”), even if we were the suppliers, to Jack’s departure (like a jaunt in “the Tomorrow People”) with plenty crammed in.
But in the end, the key element, the heart and core is that in the end Torchwood itself is greater than the sum of its parts. This story was big, very big, and different to what came before. And why not? If a series cannot experiment in format from time to time without losing its soul then there is no progress to be made. Despite the five hour run I was a little dismayed by a few inconsistencies, oversights and the inevitable weak links that allow certain plotlines to progress, a few of which really needed plugging. However, we are forgiving and it showed how much was really packed in to what amounted to half its ‘traditional’ series length. Would we have been able to watch if shown over five weeks instead of one week?
This series then is a brave move by RTD and the BBC which to my mind came off despite another team member hitting the dust, those rotten aliens. I liked this five-nightly burst format and would welcome more but as an occasional treat in between the consilidating ‘traditional’ series. I was unable to watch nightly helpings but once tuned in on iPlayer it was all done and dusted in less that 24 hours – I just couldn’t wait to see the next edition. We have seen that a lot can be thrust at the TW audience who has no right to expect what may be next on the menu and it has worked – so far – in both previous series, despite the perhaps unnecessarily high body count of staff which began in the very first episode! Stories have varied from across the SF spectrum but as ever what has really driven this show is the drama and the personal involvement which at time has been demanding. But this particular story seems to have the potential to put a cap on Captain Jack – as we know him anyway – and restart Torchwood with a fairly clean slate, if that is what is required.
They never did re-build Torchwood 1 did they, and number 3 was a little old man in an office somewhre in Glasgow, wasn’t it? Perhaps the original thoughts about the show can be re-examined and some elements built back in for series 4. I’m prepared to watch and see what they do for in the end, Torchwood will work with whoever is at the helm of the Hub (which has been destroyed twice in quick succession now). It’s how our people on the ground deal with the threats in their human way. Now RTD has had his little joke – seeing just how much we CAN take – maybe we can have some more please? And soon?
Correction-it is TW 2 with little old man.
The viewers will definitely come with them. This series was absolutely fantastic, and a lot of lukewarm viewers from the first two series became die-hards this week. Torchwood was intelligent, fast-paced, well-written and acted, and just damn good TV. If a few immature Jack/Ianto shipper fans leave the show because of it, based on the disgusting behavior they’ve showed to Mr. Moran and others, quite frankly fandom is better for it.
It should not have come as a surprise that any character (except Jack, obviously) is at risk of dying. They all die young. That’s the risk of what they deal with.
Congrats on a piss-poor article, writer.
you say: Torchwood was intelligent, fast-paced, well-written?..
in that case, can you tell me:
• What happened with the SUV? How come Torchwood allowed such advanced technology to remain in the hand a few joyriding teens?
• How come Jack doesen’t contact the Doctor?
• How come Jack goes to face the alien threat with a handgun from WW2, and not some fancy-shmancy energy gun? And why does he take Janto with him?
• What was Jack’s plan in going to confront the 456? Just shout NO at him?
Well written my foot…
RIGHT YOU ARE! A ‘RIP-ROARING STORY” AS WE MIGHT SAY HERE, MARRED BY STUPID WRITING ERRORS. JACK WAS BLOWN UP AND THE WOMAN WHO WANTS HIM DEAD COLLECTS THE PIECES IN A BAG SO JACK CAN BECOME WHOLE AGAIN! THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN A RECONNECTION SCENE BEFORE HE WAS FOUND. IN A WELL WRITTEN SCENE SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN CAREFUL TO DIVIDE UP THE BAGS AND PUT THEM IN DIFFERENT BUILDINGS IF SHE REALLY WANTS HIM DEAD!! AND JACK AND IANTO YELLING AT THE ALIEN!! STUPID STUPID SCENE.
AS FAR AS CHARACTER LOYALTY GOES RTD KILLS OF ALL THE ONES WE LOVE!
MAYBE IN SEASON 4 JACK AND THE DOCTOR WILL FLY AROUND THE UNIVERSE TRYING TO GET REVENGE IN THE 456 WHO WILL HAVE JOINED UP WITH THE SLITHEEN AND WILL MAKE SARAH JANE SMITH’S KIDS THE NEXT VICTIMS!
In my opinion, what made Torchwood worth watching was the acting. Some great performances from Jack, Janto, Tosh, Owen, Forbisham, Lois.
And that has to do with the way the actors have portrayed the characters in the scenes, not because of the writing, but in spite of it. Well timed silences, discrete facial expressions, telling gestures… that’s ALL the actors, not the writers.
Sorry, but you missed the Hub exploding ? No weapons. The SUV, that was a mistake. . .
He was too busy moaning about it to see the huge explosion which took out everything. I also love how with hindsight the dude complains about the body and how he would have seperated all the parts – because obviously that would make a great ending to the show. Episode 2 – Jack dies and is seperated into little bags. Episode 3 – Ianto and Gwen play footy with his head while his daughter and grandson go round collecting his body parts n pieces so they can put him back together! I wont go on, but I cant quite see how that would have been better viewing…
I watched Children of Earth after months of dying to know what was happening. It was compelling, it was vibrant, it was very fast paced confusion and it was brilliant. Yes, there are little ends that weren’t cleared up, but it still stayed on the drama of the situation. Ianto’s death was definately unwanted, Jack’s grandson being used in such a way was heinous and gut wrenching, and Captain Jack after all that had happened to him, running like a coward? Something is off there. I am sure we won’t see the end, but perhaps a rebirth..stronger writing, more defined stories..with Jack, regrouping, facing his own demons. There was much in his life he didn’t tell Ianto, perhaps we are only touching the surface. What of the glove that brought Owen back? I don’t believe it was destroyed..would Jack be desperate enough to use it? Will it be too late. I personally mourn the loss of Torchwood, and am hoping it will be back bigger and better and more drama and intensity than before.
People, please be aware that your comments really do have an effect on people…and not in the good way.
http://jamesmoran.blogspot.com/2009/07/stepping-back.html
I think the bigger problem with Torchwood: COE was just how ridiculous parts 4 and 5 got. Ianto’s death in itself is not a horrible idea, but the foolish incompetence the Torchwood team is seen to engage in which brought it about just made it pointless. The technobabble of the finale’s climax wasn’t wonderful, nor was the cheesy way in which Captain Jack left the show. I don’t know – it seemed like this was all wonderful set up only to have the ball dropped hard as the protagonists seem to be relatively useless quite consitently…
Hello All,
First, I loved CofE the writing was consistent and the storyline great. It was very dark, and I missed the characters from 1&2–we barely saw them in this series.
I know a lot of people were obsessed w/lanto, ( I’m sure his good looks added to his popularity) particularly lanto/jack. Many folks who saw the finale of BSG when kara/lee were left w/out closure swore they would never watch again–I loved them, but I’ll still watch.
As for TW, yeah, no one cried about Tosh or Owen like they have about lanto. But a lot of the lanto/jack fans are viscous, and it seems they directed it to the writers per the article above.I loved the team the way it was, but British TV does all this weird crap w/killing off main characters and having short seasons–I don’t get it
Anyway, many were upset about lanto and I know it is because many in the gay community wanted to see a strong gay ship on TV. There was one, it was not a good one, but there was one. I often felt like people just wanted them together because it was a gay relationship, no other reason. But isn’t the point of TW and Captain Jack that it’s not about the sex of the person but the person him/herself? That is what I thought Jack had always represented, and in S3, lanto said that very thing. So it was a relationship, neither gay or hetero, it was 2 people who loved eachother, perhaps not in a healthy way, but they did. In my POV Lanto gave Jack many things love, comfort, companionship to ease the loneliness, but Jack could not be who lanto wanted him to be–we learn this in s3. I think that they would have broken up eventually if they had stayed together.
I am okay w/how lanto died, he always had an air of sadness since cyberwoman, although he had some of the best lines, ever. He had been severely depressed since cyberwoman as we found out when Tosh heard his thoughts. Jack gave him a new reason to live, but 2x in s3 he tried to die w/Jack when he knows Jack can’t die–in the beginning he tries to lock himself in the hub w/Jack, and in the end, he went in that building planning to die, he knew that he was not coming out alive, I could tell by that phone call to his sister. He also did not even move from the room when the gas started to leak out–I think that’s what he wanted. I don’t know how Jack did not see this in him, and I think the fact that Jack did not say I love you back to lanto as he lay dying, proves that Jack has yet, as far as we have seen, to love someone completely–so they know the real Jack; all of Jack–the old future jack, the conman, the present Jack.
I am not sure whether Jack was a coward in the end, but I do not think he even had the emotional capacity to go back w/Gwen and Rhys to heal, as good friends and family do for eachother.
Captain Jack will be back, this show is JB’s vehicle, so it will be nice to have some new folks in addition to him and Gwen. She lost a lot too–Jack was her best friend, and her love in many ways, and she had also lost lanto, Tosh and Owen–it was no picnic for her either.
C
I totally agree with you Cleopatra, I understand that there are a lot of people that loved the ianto/jack relationship but I ask the question “would those same ppl who have said that now Ianto is gone , they are not going to watch Torchwood anymore”
If there had been no relationship between I/J would you have still watched the show??? Is there being a gay relationship in the show, the only reason you watched it?
I have watched other tv series completely set within the gay community eg Queer as Folk, The L word and I’m afraid they didnt portray happy, funny loving gay couples, they portrayed the reality of life.
I loved Ianto but this is Torchwood we are talking about here and in one episode in S2, it was said that no Torchwood team member ever saw past 35. Yes i am sad that Ianto is gone, but I actually like the stories and the action etc. I am a gwen/jack fan too, I know there ain’t many of us who like that ship but I’m not gonna kick up a stink because I didnt get my way and see some kind of entanglement with G/J. Please!!! I know there will be a lot of you that will disagree with what i have said and you are allowed to have your opinion but then so am I.
Torchwood is more than the sex and who Jacks sleeping with but then if thats the only reason you watch, then u arent a real fan of the show. We may not like the way this series went but that the joy of sci-fi, we just dont know whats going to happen in series 4, thats what makes it exciting……its not predictable!!!
IMO…
Its so good to hear two sensible and serious fans of the show, rather than all these people who seem to only watch it for the sex lives of Jack and co! Thing is for me, when I watched back the ending of season 2, I actually find that so much more heartbreaking. Tosh and Owen were almost destined through two long seasons to be together and yet we never really got more than a teaser from them. They never got to be together. As much as Ianto and Jack had something very special, it hadnt been teasing us for nearly as long, and they were clearly already in a relationship. None of these losses will stop me from watching because the way I see this is that if the writers can make me feel like that about characters who in series one were in parts very one dimentional. Then I can’t wait to see what they do with the new cast now that TW is an established show with a large fan base!
I’m another American who loves Torchwood for it’s British-ness. It’s been the top rated show on BBC America so I have a hard time believing that they had to tone it down for us puritanical Americans.
I,too, found the killing off of Ianto a totally bad idea. The writers know how much he is loved in the fandom yet they kill him off in a terribly bland way, complete with a declaration of love and a promise to remember. It was utter crap, however well acted.
Also a complaint with the writing, at the end, how did Jack know there was a ship waiting for him? He has none of his gizmos and gadgets, yet he knows that it’s there. I just found the fastforward 6 months a cheap and easy way to dodge a lot of questions.
Anyway, I don’t know how they can come back from this. The hub is gone, the SUV is gone and 75% (not counting JAck) is gone. I don’t want to keep watching a show that will kill off characters continually. Life is dark enough, I don’t always want my TV to be that way too.
If you want to complain about dropped plot-lines. Try this.
Let’s take a little time travel backwards.
There is a “rift” in Cardiff.
The Torchwood Hub had a containment field of sorts to help control that rift.
At the end of Season 1, when that containment field was shut off…
All Hell Broke Loose.
So why, when the entire hub is blown up, is there NO adverse effect from the rift?
??????????????????????????
The rift manipulator opens the rift. It does not keep it closed. The rift was there before the manipulator. The only way to actively open the rift is using the manipulator. If there’s no manipulator, the rift will open or close on its own as it naturally does, but there is now no man-made way for them to open it at will.
Think of it as a well. The water (the rift energy) runs underground. You want the water you send down a bucket (the manipulator). Destroy the well and the water is still there, you just have no way of getting it. :)
When they opened the rift before, it was like someone stuck a water pump in (you know the kind people use to empty their pools) and it flooded the yard.
Okay, done with that metaphor. :)
Yet another American who loved Torchwood and didn’t need it to change. Those of us who have watched it in the States have watched it knowing exactly what we were getting, same as anyone.
And part of what makes many viewers furious with the show at this point is that we’ve been left in series two and three with what seems to be deaths designed precisely to shock and appall rather than to have real reason. Whether Ianto were male or female, whether Jack had a gay or straight relationship, we saw no good reason for Ianto to die. Considering Ianto’s popularity, it seems merely insulting to a very fine actor and to the viewers.
I don’t care to see a series four that doesn’t have any recognizable characters, or that I can now fear will merely kill off whatever characters are introduced. Why should I warm up to characters who are simply destined to be eliminated pointlessly,or allow myself as a viewer to care about what happens to them?
And this may be Barrowman’s vehicle, yes, but how much will we as viewers care for the Jack Harkness who comes out the other end of this? If he has no change, then all of CoE is for naught; if Harkness is changed, it can hardly be to make him any more likeable. The show is dark enough already without more bitterness.
The show had a built-in ending to the entire series in it; it is time for Torchwood to go to rest.
• They knew from 1965 that the alien threatened with a viral infection, so how come people were not wearing hasmat suits in the building? How come there was only one suit available?
• How come the building wasn’t evacuated of all unnecessary personnel the moment the 456 landed?
• How come an organization as Torchwood doesn’t have an alternative sight? After the explosion, they are left only with the clothes on their back, like a bunch of amateurs.
etc etc etc
Well, I don’t know about the first two questions alzir, but i can answer your third.
They were always a bunch of amateurs.
Torchwood 3, jack’s torchwood, was always a little office. Torchwood 1, which was the main one, was destroyed at the end of season 2 of Doctor Who by the daleks and the cyberman. Leaving only Jack and his team, some random crazy guy in scotland and another office that went missing.
In 1999 torchwood three’s former leader looked into some alien locket went crazy and shot all his team, except Jack. Jack then took over torchwood 3, and after the fall of Torchwood 1, there was only Jack to pick of the pieces and carry on the Torchwood name, albeit, changing it to suit his own purposes.
So yes, it is stupid of jack and his team to have no where to go. But in all honestly, i just think that reflects the characters stupidity about a lot of things.
They threatened to release the virus to the entire populus – no one expected it to be confined to the building. How do you know all those personell (we are talking about Thames House here) were not essential. You can’t really just look at them and go, well that person wasnt needed! Also from what I understand, the fact that the 456 were there was not public knowledge and was only told to those on a need to know basis, hence the woman hunting Jack who seemed to be pretty high up in some secret chain of command, didnt really know what was going on till Jacks team showed her the contact lense footage. TW had alternative sites as other people have mentioned here, but in past eps of Doc Who they have shown what has happened. Essentially TW was a big organisation which took so many losses that it was pretty much given up on. The only people really carrying on the work were Jack and whoever he could recruit (his little band) while the governments of the world opted to form UNIT to take on the larger threats from aliens etc.
As an obsessed DW/TW/SJA fan, I approached CoE with high hopes, hopes that the first three 1/2 episodes met. But when Ianto died at the end of episode four, I wasn’t so sure. Then Jack kills his granchild and runs. That night, I was left seriously considering giving up my obsession with the Whoniverse.
But then I thought, DW and SJA are still brilliant! TW has just gone a little askew. I’m wondering how they’re going to do a fourth series with only Gwen. It was hard enough to see Torchwood without Owen and Tosh (definetely my favourite characters), but I can’t see it happening with just Gwen. You need Jack there not only because he’s the character we know most of all, but also because he’s the character who actually knows what to do.
So I’m not giving up my affiliation with TW/DW/SJA (the shock of that might kill my family), but I do wonder how a fourth series can be done, unless the Doctor comes and transports them all back to before Tosh and Owen died. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
To be fair when i heard the storyline for CoE I thought it was brilliant and the way the program was laid out was fantastic, drama angst and all the things need to make a really good TV show, especially as last season TW ended on a sad note.
Alas when I watched episode 4, I was shocked and dismayed to find Ianto being written out of the show, I could understand if his death had some mile stone point for Jack to come back eyes blazing, but it didn’t it just lead Jack to be near despondent being lead into a cell, I would have thought that given Jack’s character *as built on by the writers* he would have tried everything to save his grandson because he didn’t want to lose another person and found another way.
To be fair, BBC America wanted things to be toned down for it to be marketable to their own market *As said in the internet-based reviews around*, because let’s be fair there is still Homophobic people out there in the world. So it put pressure on the writers to come up with a way to solve this.
There has been a lot of backlash about the writers and Russel Davis over the internet with many sites being built up trying to bring back the character Ianto for the inevitable TW season 4 *look at the ratings, of course there will be* and I say good luck, if it worked for Stargate etc then it could most defiantly work for TW.
As an American, I will say that yes, this show would never be on our top 4 major networks–in middle america is hardly liberal–sorry from NYC–I don’t think that way.
However it’s on BBCA which is cable, so it can be watched w/out much censorship. I have only noticed very slight things removed from s2 as compared to what’s on itunes, it was one kiss w/lanto in SB. But CofE is being highly promoted, it was in New York Magazine! and on some bus signage–so they are definitely trying to push it.
You know BSG had a huge audience, but a loyal one on scifi, oh sorry syfy, whatever. I finally fell like Jack is becoming a character w/more depth, a lot like my favorite character Lee Adama–I want to see him change, and be in a real relationship w/someone. I mean come on, even in this series, he was totally loving it when he opened his mouth about the baby in front of Rhys, he did it on purpose, and lanto said, just like old times–Jack just was not who he wanted him to be.
As I said before, british tv likes to kill their characters early which makes it very difficult to have success in the US. Why bother watching if you kill everyone after a season which is shorter than one of ours? I believe they destroyed Primeval doing that, and that show had amazing potential.
Owen, Tosh, lanto, even Suzie–none of them had to die. They should have kept them–I got really attached to Tosh and Owen in the end, and loved the part they played on the team. There was also no reason for lanto to die, his suicidal tendancies could have been left out of the character, and instead we could have seen his ship w/Jack play out, and I believe end. lanto needed someone 100%.
I love Captain Jack–I think this element of his character, if written properly can be properly merged w/his character development. I would like to see him w/Gwen, maybe Lois, and that psycho Johnson chick–I’d love to see her and Gwen together.
c
I feel used. As a loyal Torchwood fan I and the rest of the loyal fans helped make the show so popular that they were moved to BBC1 for this special “event.” We Jack/Ianto fans were promised we would love COE. I am disappointed. My main reason for watching was for the characters; I enjoyed watching their interactions with each other, their unrequited feelings, their humanness. Tosh and Ianto were my favorites. So why should I invest more of my time getting to know and care about new characters when they are disposable and won’t be around for long? I just can’t waste the energy for another season. If that makes me a “brain dead moron” who needs to “grow up,” so be it. I am entitled to my opinion. And in my opinion, Torchwood is dead.
I’m one of those people who are finished. I’m in Canada. I watched the show online. The show caught my attention because of Jack and Ianto. For me, the sci fi stuff is always secondary. It’s the characters that I care about and it’s the characters that keep me watching. I’m not interested in watching the Gwen show. I have no further reason to continue watching this. Pitty. It was one of my favourites.
Theres a lot of people here of the fluffy bunny persuasion where everything has to be nice, the heroes prosper and the baddies suffer
grow up – good drama is exactly that because it drags you through the whole emotional spectrum not just the ahhhh moments. you have to have moments like ianto and stephen to make the truelly great moments (the end of the doctor dances for example) to feel special. I’d feel really angry if Russell T Davies listens to all this whinging and makes everything ok – if you cant handle tragedy stick to the sarah jane adventures and stop wasting our time
Torchwood isn’t billed as a tragedy. And good drama is about conflict, not death. Conflicts can arise out of situations other than the death of a beloved character.
And how, exactly, am I wasting your time by commenting on why I won’t stomach another series of Torchwood without Ianto? If you don’t want to read my comments, which you obviously didn’t, then don’t read them. But telling me to grow up because we have a difference of opinion? Who is the immature one now?
Ianto had to die. Jack in a happy relationship would soon have grown boring and Jack would have lost the drive to save the Earth being comfortable in his own existance, not worrying about the human race living around him.
Children of Earth was some of the best television that I have seen in a long time. It takes a brave writer to kill off beloved characters and I would be upset if the death hadn’t been meaningful. I found it was. It takes an even braver writer to save the world by killing a child. I thought the Torchwood writers didn’t shy away from the brutal reality of the cost of saving the world. Torchwood really came of age with this, there is no Doctor here exclaiming “Everybody Lives!” this is where the “adult” theme of Torchwood should have been all along.
I also liked how the real monsters were us–so well put by Gwen in her good-bye video when she said the Dr. would look down at us in shame. Also Frobisher, I felt he was an unsung hero in this series. Yes, he knew about it before, and I’m not sure what else, but UNIT came to him, and I guess he thought that he was doing the right thing–but I don’t think that he wanted to kill Torchwood or the others.
But he went in that room, courageously following diplomatic rules because his superiors, namely that PM, were too cowardly to go themselves. The American general was right, and backed up by UNIT-in that they should have known. They could have been prepared, but even Jack thought that they would be good for their word. Frobisher worked hard to do as he was told, you could see how afraid he was, in front of the 456, and how he knew the world was about to end. Plus he knew that he was being used by the higher ups for cya, because as he said he was just a paper pusher.
But by far the most courageous and tragic moment of all, was killing his family and himself to save them from the hell of the 456 as their “high”. When that PM told him to sacrifice his family, I was almost sick.
But other heroes? Lois, and of course his secretary. I guess it’s very American of me to think that she was going to take out a gun and shoot him on the spot. But that last speech was so well written, and poignant. I wanted her to say something about vengeance for his using of Frobisher.
That actor and the man who played Clem, were brilliant, brilliant in this series.
c
Although I don’t think Torchwood: Children of Earth quite measured up to Series 1 and 2, mostly because it was over so quickly! (I want more!) and this gave it less time for the interpersonal stuff between the action sequences, I believe that the writers, directors, producers, et al did an impressive job of condensing Torchwood for the BBC’s demanded ‘event’ (I am not a fan of TV ‘events’ at all, but that’s another matter).
Of course, I’m miserable that Ianto is dead and cried for ages, just as I did when Tosh and Owen died, but I do agree with all the writers that they write for the story, NOT to please shippers and fangroups. I don’t think it had anything to do with the Jack/Ianto relationship either – if they wanted to end Torchwood, or start afresh with a new team, it was a logical way to clear the team – get Gwen pregnant so she would have to quit, and kill Ianto so that Jack had no more emotional ties to Earth, thus letting him go.
and for those missing Ianto (including me) we/you are lucky! the writers were originally going to kill him off in the first series but decided to keep him when they saw the character potential! so we should be thankful we got him for as long as we did!
Got up to Part 4, and will no longer watch. I strongly feel the relationship between Jack and Ianto was only developing, becoming interesting. The abrupt cut-off makes the whole interaction from the previous season play like a plot device, thrown in for effect. A writer, sitting round the computer typing away, and suddenly thinking “Hm, this would be heartbreaking…let’s do it.” It made absolutely no sense to me that Jack would face 456 with Ianto right next to him, knowing them from before and what they were capable of. I think I’m so upset because the writing on this series has never disappointed me before, and to have something this clumsy thrown at me…well, I took it a little personally. I expected better because up until now, I got better. For all the Torchwood people responsible, shame on you.
I just watched Part 4 and I think DTR and team are absolutely brilliant! Look, the writers had been honest from the first episode in series one that TW members are brilliant in their own rights, but they all die young except Jack who will never die.
Remember Suzy from the series opener in series 1? She died in series one before Gwen joined the team. Like every loyal TW fans, I was shocked when Owen and Tosh died in series two, but it reinforced the center of the plot – TW member all die young!
I too, love Ianto’s character and his relationship with Jack, but even the most lovable gay characters shouldn’t be exempt from the fate of all TW members. His character is a mortal who is in love with an “immortal” and they are both in the most dangerous job where people die young. He wasn’t exactly the first character we love from the show that was killed here so the whole comment about the writers being homophobic or changing TW to the American market are simply unfairly.
You should also note that Ianto stood up against Jack multiple times in S3 that he didn’t like to be hidden in the dark on Jack’s secrets. He also thought that the Jack he knows would rather fight and die than yield to the 456 when it had arrived the first time. It all builds up to the fact that he wanted to be an equal partner in his relationship with Jack. The fact that Ianto is by Jack’s side shows that the iron wall that Jack had been putting up over the years are cracking down. Besides, who else can Jack bring as backup for this mission? Gwen is with child and Rhys is untrained.
Lastly, I do hope that TW will be back for a series 4. I’m sure the writers will do the show justice when it happen. After all, this is Sci-fi, anything can happen.
WoW! All you having a go about this article are as bad as the people who were tweeting James Moran’s Twitter account with nasty comments. Talk about hypocritical.
I didn’t like Ianto’s death, really out me off the series [seeing as we only just lost Tosh and Owen], but I would never leave negative comments to the writers. They have to write what they think will work, and in the end it will never work for everyone.
Same with this article, if you don’t agree then say so. But to say that it’s a load of crap, or rubbish and not well researched, well really you need to get over yourselfs and not too take it too seriously as the fans you accuse of taking the Ianto death too seriously. Pot calling kettle.
Actually, saying it’s not well researched is a fair criticism of the article, particularly on a site which presents itself as a journalistic one. The author presents the opinion of a segment of fandom as if it were the opinion of all fandom. For example, regarding Ianto’s death, she writes “the viewers reacted strongly,” using “the” instead of “some.” She has no basis on which to estimate the size of that part of fandom who were angry. Simple research around sites outside of LJ and Facebook would have shown her that there were many fans, not newbies but fans who have also watched from the start, who did not feel anger at the death of Ianto. She refers specifically to the one tweeter to James Moran who was clearly unbalanced, something she fails to mention. She picks and chooses comments from a post James made on his blog that he specifically said: “Please feel free to pass this on, I encourage you to do so, to make my position clear to everyone – but you must include the link to the full post here: http://jamesmoran.blogspot.com/2009/07/stepping-back.html.” This author did not link to his post.
The twittering to James comprised death threats and threats of self-harm over the fate of a fictionaly character. The complaints about the author here are about journalistic intregrity in the real world. It’s neither hypocritical nor a case of the pot calling the kettle black to suggest that this is a poorly written article.
The backlash against the backlash seems to be just as strident doesn’t it.
I am another person who probably won’t have a lot of interest in a Season 4 of Torchwood and its not just because I won’t see a bit of male kissing, although it was nice to see an openly gay relationship on our TV screens. But even if there hadn’t been a relationship between Jack and Ianto I still would be writing the same thing here.
My problem with the show is that now we have lost three of the main five characters in the show, characters that we liked and invested time in getting to know. Very few show can remove 60% of their ensemble and survive. Its why most other shows have at least 8 or 9 main characters so that a certain level of turnover can be achieved.
If Torchwood is going to continue in this mini-series format its not going to have time for us to get to know new characters, get to like them, laugh at them and understand them. The mini-series format has to put the action and threat front and centre so the rest gets shoved to one side. And with only two (and a half) characters left there’s not enough there to build on.
I can say that I didn’t have real emotional reaction to the climax of Episode 5 because I knew that there had to be some reason for bringing in Jack’s daughter and grandson. They weren’t characters, they were plot devices and therefore it was obvious that one or the other was going to end up dead. In fact it would have been far more emotional if Ianto had still been alive in Episode 5 so that he could watch Jack kill his grandson and possibly reject Jack because of it. Now that would have been a great scene to watch and possibly to write.
Finally its terribly arrogant and insulting of Russell T Davies to say “grow up” or “go read poetry” to people like me who don’t agree with his choices. Its seem to me that its Davies who has the childish attitude of “you’ll play my way or I’m taking my ball home with me”.
Children of Earth had some terrible plot loopholes and a really poor resolution. Indeed since Captain Jack came up with the answer in around five minutes at the end, one wonders why he didn’t take that five minutes earlier on to think about it. Davies is not such a God that he can afford to be so arrogant to a significant proportion of the show’s fanbase.
But roll on Season 4 of the Jack and Gwen (and Rhys) show. Maybe we’ll have the ever irritating Martha Jones or the even more irritating Mickey Clarke, Doctor Who cast off’s to watch. That’ll be fun won’t it.